How "sour" does your starter smell?
When I use my soudough starter (typically about 6 hours after the final refresh), I remix it well, blow off the CO2, and take a whiff: it usually smells like vinegar (acetic acid; burns the nose).
In contradistinction, my home-made fermented pickles and Polish sour rye soup starter (500% hydration ratio), typically smell like lactic acid (sweet to the nose).
((Seeking to improve the lactic acid to acetic acid ratio in my sourdough bread, I have recently innoculated one of my sourdough cultures with a tablespoon of my Polish sour rye soup starter culture. I then refreshed this sourdough bread culture at a "pancake batter" hydration ratio (?150%) every 12 hours for 2 days.))
Indeed, my new sourdough culture, now maintained at this high hydration ratio, smells much sweeter. However, this does not mean that just 1/4 cup of this sweet-smelling starter will ferment 300g water and 400g flour, over 12 hours, to that same lactic-acid predominance in the final loaf.
I am seeking experienced wisdom regarding thin vs thick home-maintained sourdough starters, how they smell, and the basic differences on how they should be used in the practice to make high lactic-acid to acetic acid ratio bread at home. If someone has already written a FAQ, article, or thread on this, please post that link.
JonnyP
Suggest you read Debra Winks' material, and accompanying comments:
http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/10375/lactic-acid-fermentation-sourdough%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3Eand her numerous contributions to Nico's thread, keep reading!:
http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/14913/very-liquid-sourdough%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3EHer starter 101s are good too:
http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3E%3Ca href="https://weightloss-slim.fit/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2">http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3C/div%3E
Hi JonnyP,
I don't know how much detail you want, but I maintain a 100% starter (equal flour and water by weight), which I refresh 2 or 3 times a week and keep in the refrigerator between feedings. I also maintain a 166% hydration starter (equal flour and water by volume), which I keep on the countertop and refresh daily. This is a very young starter, which I've only had for a couple of weeks. I find a couple of differences between the two:
1) The 100% starter shows visible signs of activity, and it doubles in under 4 hours at room temperature. The 166% starter doesn't really increase in volume very much. Both raise dough very well.
2) The 100% starter develops large bubbles on the surface and throughout the mixture. The 166% starter shows only tiny, tiny surface bubbles.
3) The smell of the 100% starter is sweet and mild, but when I bake with it I get a somewhat tangy (sour) result. The 166% starter smells strikingly acidic, but I tend to get a very mild tasting loaf.
4) When I bake with the 100% starter, I tend to use only a small amount, like one or 2 tablespoons for a two-loaf. With the 166% starter, I'm using a lot more, like 2 cups for a two-loaf batch.
Just my observations.
I've read that watery starters tend to favor the bacteria over the yeast, so all other things being equal, the thin starter should result in a tangier loaf. I'd guess, though, that the small amount of 100% starter you use is the reason for the sourness. That small amount probably leads to a relatively long fermentation time, which results in increased sourness. If you increased the amount of 100% starter you used, you'll get a milder tasting loaf.
That makes sense to me. Thanks for the explanation.
Thank you for all observations/advice above. Although I was already aware of:http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/10375/lactic-acid-fermentation-sourdough%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3E%3Ca href="/user/robynnz">RobynNZ made me aware of Debra Wink's further discussion here: http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/14913/very-liquid-sourdough%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3EThis second link "very-liquid-sourdough," best confirms what I suspected in the original post:, "Indeed, my new sourdough culture, now maintained at this high hydration ratio, smells much sweeter. However, this does not mean that just 1/4 cup of this sweet-smelling starter will ferment 300g water and 400g flour, over 12 hours, to that same lactic-acid predominance in the final loaf."
Debra Wink's first article above,"lactic-acid-fermentation-sourdough"is easily found on google:
This is how I became interested in this forum. However, the content of her advice in "very-liquid-sourdough " is practically undiscoverable by such outside search engines (bummer).
This forum certainly owes a great deal to the original content provided here by Debra Wink. Such depth is rare to find. My search on this forum shows no posts from her in 2011. Perhaps she is co-authoring a chapter in some book?
JonnyP
Perhaps she is co-authoring a chapter in some book?
Nah. But I have been busy working on articles and bread projects in between traveling. I don't get as much time here as I'd like, but I have posted at least a few times in 2011 :-)
Best wishes,
dw
DW,
Here are photos of my 9-month old daughter, Sophia, thanking you in return:
"Thanks DW!"
JonnyP
Very cute.
Best wishes,
dw