Le Pavé d’Autrefois Round #2 and Pan Francese

Last week I posted on a bake I did of a bread called Le Pavé d’Autrefois that didn't turn out the way I'd hoped it would , particularly the crumb. Click on the link for all the grisly details and graphic images. http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/25171/le-pav%C3%A9-d%E2%80%99autrefois-and-multigrain-pain-au-levain%3C/a%3E Even though last weeks bread was under fermented, it held the promise of great flavour if a few procedural changes on my part were made. By allowing myself more time and having better control over temperatures during the bulk fermentation and final proof, I was confident I could produce something a little closer to what Alan/asfolks was able to achieve when he posted on this bread back in August. http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/24581/le-pav%C3%A9-d%E2%80%99autrefois%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3EThis bread does need a lot of time. I began at 6:00AM by mixing the flour soaker of all purpose, whole wheat, rye and buckwheat which then sat covered until 10:00 AM when I began the final mix. By the time bulk ferment, resting/shaping, proofing and baking were finished it was almost 5:30PM. I realize this amount of time for a single loaf might sound slightly mad to folks who don't bake these types of breads, my wife being a good example, but I was on a mission of sorts that I'm sure many TFL'rs can relate to. As it was, I had a few other non bread projects going on in the kitchen as well, so for me it was time well spent. However...next time I make this bread I'll try doing it with an overnight retard just to see if there is anything to be gained from it other than an extra hour or two of sleep.

This session yielded what I feel is a much improved loaf, with a more open, though not even, crumb. The crumb on Alan's Pave is the benchmark for me, and this one is still a ways off that, but it's getting there. The flavour of this loaf is much better as well. With a proper fermentation the flavours of the various grains are more balanced and without the 'green' or raw taste of under fermented dough. I think the best thing you could pair with this bread is a favourite cheese and a good glass of wine or beer. Just on it's own it has more than enough deep flavour to satisfy any sourdough or multigrain lover. Generally I'm happy with the results, not entirely satisfied yet, but closer to the mark this time around.

Le pavé d’autrefois
Ingredients	%	Kg
Levain
Mature Rye Starter-100%	24.8	35
Whole Rye Flour-Rogers	100	141
Water	100	141
Total Weight	224	317

Soaker
Organic AP Flour	55.85	315
Whole Wheat Flour-Sloping Hills Farm	18.97	107
Medium Rye Flour-bulk generic	12.5	71
Buckwheat Flour-Nunweiler's	12.5	71
Water	100	564
Total Weight	199.82	1128

Final Dough
Organic AP flour	100	286
Soaker	394.4	1128
Levain	30	317
Sea Salt-Sel Gris	2	20
Water	13.9	40
Total Weight	540.3	1791

Total Flour	100	1008
Total Hydration	75.5	762
DDT-78-80F

PROCEDURE:

Mix levain 14 hours prior to mix with 2 feedings, and ferment at 70°-75F. Mix the soaker ingredients 4 hours previous to the final mix

Mix Levain, Soaker, Final 286g of AP flour and salt. Cover with plastic and begin the bulk ferment.

Stretch and fold 4 times during a 4 hour bulk ferment. Turn out dough onto heavily floured surface and fold over on itself. Rest 30 minutes. Spread out dough by lightly dimpling with fingertips, being careful not to degas the dough. Cut into rectangular slabs roughly 1/3rd longer than the width, place on floured linen for a final rise of 45-90 minutes. Bake on a 500°F preheated stone for 10 minutes, with steam system in place. After 10 minutes reduce the temperature to 475F, remove steam, unblock the vent, and rotate the loaf for even colouring. Continue baking for 20-30 minutes. Check for an internal temperature of 210F , then leave in a cooling oven with the door slightly ajar for 15-20 minutes. Wrap in linen and cool on racks for 8 hours or overnight before slicing.

The other loaf pictured is a Francese, the formula from Advanced Bread & Pastry by Michel Suas. Back around the weekend of March 18/19 of this year I'd planned to do a bake of this bread and coincidentally it turned out, so had David Snyder, posting his usual meticulous writeup along with photos of his excellent Pan Francese.

http://weightloss-slim.fit/node/22757/pan-francese-advanced-bread-amp-pastry%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3EFor anyone wanting to make this bread David has provided the full formula and procedure in the link above.

I thought OK, no problem, I'll stick with the plan and make mine on Sunday to post on Monday. If I recall correctly I was email chatting with breadsong that evening and discovered she was so taken with Davids loaf that she decided to do one as well. Breadsong's loaf is posted a little further down in David's post and it's gorgeous! Well now I'm thinking do I really want to add a third Francese to the mix when two of the best bakers on the site have contributed stunning examples of the loaf already. I decided to make something else and do the Francese at another time. Six months have passed since then and I thought maybe it was time to finally have a go at it. Like David and breadsong I just followed the formula and procedure from AB&P, but only making a single loaf. In terms of flavour I don't know that I prefer this to a baquette, but I do prefer it to baking a baquette in my home oven. The stone I have isn't long enough to accomodate a decent size baquette so I don't make them, but the Francese works just fine. It's a good bread, with lots of crunch and chew to it, and relatively easy to make since there's no molding to speak of involved. It needs a minor tweak in the flavour profile but I can't put my finger on just what it is yet. My guess is it's probably rye or sour...likely both.

Cheers,

Franko

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Thanks for sharing your beautiful breads and the journey to your satisfaction of perfecting them...they look delicious!

Sylvia

Hi Sylvia, and thank you kindly!

You know..I find these journeys or 'projects' much more interesting than a success the 1st time out. Far more potential for learning, and ultimately understanding, than being satisfied with a 1st effort.

Best,

Franko

And gorgeous-looking breads. Have to try them. It's always inspiring to come across different methods, because there's the hope and sense that just up ahead is that best-ever flavour. It's a mirage, of course, and that's the best thing about it! We will always be searching for something better.

I really commend you for sharing your errors and progress as you have. I usually wait until I am happy with a new bread or process before I post, but that denies readers the opportunity to go along on the ride to success and learn with you. Thanks for the education!

Cheers
Ross

Thank you Ross,

Your kind words are greatly appreciated, especially regarding the writeup. That part is seldom easy for me, some days easier but rarely a cinch. I feel that there's plenty of room on this site for a variety of styles of posts, showcase posts, video and photo, tours, demos, etc, as well as something like this. There's something to learn from all of them and hopefully some will find this the case during this quest of mine.

Thanks again Ross!

Franko

I second Ross' aplauding your sharing your lessons along the way. I do think they help other bakers. I try to include my thoughts regarding what I would do differently "next time" in my comments. They help me learn, and I always hope they stimutlate others' problem solving.

David

P.S. The link to my blog on Pane Francese doesn't work. Try this one: Pan Francese from Advanced Bread & Pastry

Thanks David,

I've always considered this site primarily as a learning tool. That's certainly been true for me since becoming a member, and if other members can pick up something useful from these posts so much the better. Glad you liked the breads and writeup as well David.

Thanks for picking up on that faulty link to your blog. I've been inserting the links I want to include into an Open Office doc that I do the writeup on, then copy and paste the entire thing into the dialog box on the site when making a post. I'm not sure why sometimes the links go haywire, but it's the 2nd time this has happened. I'll go back to doing it the way I was before.

A pleasure as always David.

Franko

Really, really love the look of those loaves! Must've tasted great, too. Worth every minute you spent to make them. ;)

Thanks for sharing, Franko. :)

lumos

Hi Lumos,

Thanks for the compliments on the loaves. As for the taste, my stepson, who's normally doesn't care for tangy, sourdough breads quite liked the Pave. I gave him about a 1/3 of it to take home so I guess I'll be doing another one soon, This time with the overnight BF or final proof, not sure which yet.

Franko

Hi Franko,

Very informative process you wrote about the Le Pavé d’Autrefois which took a long time to bake.. I could imagine in my head while I was reading it. I'd like to challenge this loaf,too.

About the Pan Francese that is posted by David. I already calcurated to make 2 loaves of the French bread in Italy tomorrow after I saw yours!

Best wishes,

Akiko

Thank you Akiko,

I hope you enjoy making the Francese and I know you'll make a good loaf or two tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing them if you have the time to post.

All the best,

Franko

The pave is really looking good. I'm glad to hear the flavor is better this time as well.

Nice job!

Alan

P.S.- I don't think 11 hours is an excessive amount of time to spend on a loaf of bread at all! It sounds perfectly reasonable.

Hi Alan,

Thanks very much! It getting there. I think the external appearance is much better on this one than the previous, and the crumb is better as well, but not there yet. I've been thinking about it and wonder if the pH of the the starter/levain might have been too acidic. The crumb reminds me of ones I've seen where that was the case, and it is quite sour tasting so perhaps.

"I don't think 11 hours is an excessive amount of time to spend on a loaf of bread at all!"

Seems reasonable to me as well Alan, but some people don't get the concept of slow food. Judging by the sales of the guck that many of them eat, it would appear we're vastly outnumbered...for now.

Thanks again Alan, I'll keep you posted.

Franko

crumb which I guess comes from the relatively small amount of buckwheat. So the shape of the loaf and the color are supposed to make us think of old stone. Very cool. What's a bit of time when it comes to baking a beautiful loaf? And then of course baking it again until you are satisfied. -Varda

Hi Varda,

The colour is one of several things that appealed to me as soon as I saw Alan's Pave, but yes it's supposed to remind us of an old paving stone. Cool indeed! It was one of those 'must make this bread' moments I'm sure you're familiar with. I don't mind spending the time at all, but my opportunities to do so in a working week are limited. Hopefully I'll find that using an overnight retard allows me a bit more scheduling flexibility and better results on the next bake.

Thanks Varda, good to hear from you!

PS- sorry I haven't commented on your blog, but your cherry focaccia is spectacular!

Franko

Hi Franko,

a good choice to make the Francese and post on both of these.

I believe you are correct in thinking a bit of rye would be good in the Francese for more flavour; a very good idea. Your version looks to have more wholewheat than either David's or Breadsong's from the photos.

I wonder if you could mix the dough for the Pave a little more? Maybe that would break down the structure a little and improve the crumb further. The second attempt is clearly a big improvement on the first, but I'm just trying to think of something else you could look at to find the further improvement you are looking for. I loved the look of this loaf when Alan first posted it.

Very best wishes to you, Franko

Andy

Hi Andy,

Yes the Francese needs something alright. At our shop we used to make our baguettes with a percentage of a commercial rye base, can't recall the actual % but it was low. Those were very tasty baguettes considering it was pretty much a no-time dough. I think some straight rye or rye sour would help make this otherwise good bread even better. I went back and checked the formula I used for the Francese and it was 2.78% higher than called for in AB&P, so not a great deal more. I think it has more to do with the mill of the flour which is quite fine and golden coloured. This whole wheat flour is from a nearby organic farm called Sloping Hills Farm. http://www.localharvest.org/sloping-hill-farm-M9069 A wonderful source to have found so close to home!

On both the 1st and 2nd mix of the Pavé d’Autrefois I've used my mixer instead of hand mixing, mainly because it's a new mixer and I want to use it. I decided to use a short mix (6-7 minutes on 1st) on this dough and then develop it through S&F's. I agree that it does need a longer mixing time than what it had, but the next mix will be done entirely by hand in order to get a better feel for where the development is at.

Alan's loaf was really something wasn't it? That gorgeous crumb is exactly what I'm aiming to eventually achieve, and I'll continue plugging away at it till I get there. Thanks for your comments as always Andy!

All the best,

Franko

Hi Franko, "...I was on a mission of sorts that I'm sure many TFL'rs can relate to." (I get it!) I wanted to (belatedly) compliment you on your beautiful breads and am so glad you enjoyed the pave the second time around. Thank you so much for your kind words about the Francese :^); remembering this bread and thinking of the next bake, I will try including some toasted wheat germn for some extra flavor. I found this dough really easy to work with shaping-wise and would like to try making the Francese again. :^) from breadsong

Hi breadsong,

Great to hear from you and thanks for the compliments on the loaves. I did enjoy the flavour of this pave but I'm afraid my mission isn't accomplished just yet. A 3rd bake which I didn't post was better still, as far as the crumb went but not what I'm aiming for as an end result, and it had a rather large cavity just under the top crust. I thought I'd give it a rest for a bake or two and have at it again sometime soon. Mission still ongoing!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Franko