Yikes… my husband the chemist was interested in my comments about this being added to flour.
Turns out it’s added industry wide from flour to fruit juices to paper making !
And wow is it expensive. He said it’s probably added to a bread formula in mcg.
Anyway I found all the info interesting. 
Caroline, this is why I added a portion of flour containing xylanase to the middlings levain; xylanase/hemicellulase is hard to buy and crazy expensive - a kilo would do quite a few bakes!
In the UK it is listed as an ingredient on the flour bag when used. Apparently in the US, millers are allowed to use the blanket descriptor "enzyme" without needing to specify which enzyme it is - often alpha amylase, but could be xylanase in addition.
Lance
Yeh he said it would only take micro amounts. I’ve seen “ dough improver” for sale I think. It’s likely the same thing. I’ll stick with my usual suspects.
I’m currently on a Poolish kick!
I've never had much success with poolish. I'm sure it works fine with strong American and Canadian flours, but I don't see the point of it with weak, eg French, flours. It is supposed to increase extensibility, but lack of extensibility has not been a problem with any T65 or T80 I have used.
And what it does do is degrade the gluten in the poolish, making for a weaker dough and increasing the apparent hydration by several percent. I think part of the problem is that originally poolish's were short - 3 hours - but often now they are overnight ambient.
Of course, being a preferment, there will be some contribution to flavour, but much better to use a pâte fermentée, I would say.
Lance
I don’t know anything about this so I’m taking your advice . I just wrote out a formula for a pate fermentee.
It said typically it’s 20% of the flour called for in the original formula . My basic baguettes are
800g T65 ( currently subbing 1/2 strong BF)
16g salt
3/4tsp ADY
80g active levain
520g approx water
So how much and how do I add the p.f. ?
Thank you Lance
I’ll do as you suggest . My baguette formula:
800 T 65 ( currently subbing 400g strong BF)
16g salt
3/4t dry yeast
80g active levain
Approximately 520g water
So how much PF? I saw 20% of dough flour. See below sample
168 g flour
108 g water
1g yeast
3g salt
Mix, rise.
Any and all suggestions welcome.🙏 c
This was my recipe - hope you can read it!
Your talk of 3 hour Poolish is a 'Flying Poolish'?
Why not add salt to the Poolish like a Saltolyse. This allows the extended time. Works a treat.
That's another option, Abe. Certainly Prof. Calvel salts his poolisch, as it was called back in the day.
Lance
This text is a technical guide on using a poolish (a liquid pre-ferment) in traditional baking. It breaks down the ratios, the differences between French and Viennese methods, and the chemistry of yeast and salt.
Working with Poolish
The poolish method requires a preliminary preparation, made more or less a long time before the kneading of the batch itself. It is a sort of liquid sourdough, with the consistency of pancake batter, resulting from a mixture of water, flour, and yeast.
In general, despite some minor modifications caused by the fluctuation in the baking quality of the flours, 1 kg of flour is added for every 1 liter of water. If using "gruau" flour (high-quality wheat flour), 900 g will suffice.
The preparation of the dough is usually done in a special tub, but one can just as well use a barrel with the head removed, provided it is light and manageable.
Two methods of making "poolish" have been and are still in use: the French method and the Viennese method. The difference between them lies in the amount of water used to make the poolish compared to the amount poured in at the time of kneading to complete the batch.
Comparison of Methods
Suppose a dough batch requires 25 liters of water:
The volume of "complementary" water—half in the first case, one-fifth in the second—will be poured in during the final kneading. It will serve to dissolve the salt, which will then be introduced into the mixer. In this regard, it is good to note that, in principle, salt is never incorporated during the making of the poolish, as it would slow down fermentation and delay its use. The quantity of salt is calculated based on the total volume of water poured for the entire batch. The same applies to the weight of yeast used in the poolish preparation.
Yeast Dosages
The dose of yeast depends on the duration of the fermentation (proofing) time; thus, one will use:
For a poolish with 3 hours of fermentation
For 100 kilos of flour:
Three hours before the kneading of the batch, take and mix in the bowl of the mechanical mixer or in a special tub:
The Process
Once the fermentation of the poolish is finished, proceed to the kneading of the batch.
Final Proofing and Baking
Once the work is finished, place the dough on the board and give it, depending on its condition, 30 minutes to 1 hour of floor time (pointing).
After a final proof (apprêt) which can vary between 1 hour and 1 h. 30, bake normally.
Well Gary, you did such a good job on those two pages, here's the the two intermediate pages:
Also, after reading your translation, it looks like the salt ISN'T added to the poolish after all in his recipe.
Lance
The following is the translation of the remaining pages from the manual. These sections move away from the basic recipes and into the technical "finesse" of baking—explaining how to judge when a poolish is ready, how temperature affects the results, and how this method allows a baker to provide fresh bread in the morning without working all night.
Part 3: Technical Mastery and Observations
These figures do not have an absolute value; many factors can lead a baker to modify them. But the poolish has this interesting quality: one can very easily recognize its optimum proofing point. This is the period when its upper convex part becomes slightly concave. In other words, it is the moment when, having finished increasing in volume, it shows signs of fatigue that foreshadow a slow and upcoming collapse. It is best to use it then and perform the kneading of the batch.
To ensure nothing remains attached to the walls of the tub or barrel, it is wise to pass the salt through with the remaining water to be poured and, before emptying everything into the mixer, to perform a small rinse.
The water used for the poolish preparation should be cool in summer and lukewarm in winter. Let us note in passing that with the Viennese method, taking the season into account, the water must be used slightly cooler than it would be, if applicable, with the French method. Similarly, when the "poolish," regardless of its method of use, must endure a long proofing for the same quantity of water, the weight of the flour is slightly reduced to obtain a more liquid mixture. This makes it more tolerant and less likely to take on an excess of "force". But the best way to avoid this trouble is to reduce the weight of yeast or the water temperature, or—depending on whether one wants to increase or shorten the proofing time of the batch—to make a larger or smaller poolish.
For the designation of "Viennese method" or "French method" seems above all to be a professional linguistic flourish. The first gives a large poolish, the second a small one, just as there are large or small sourdoughs.
Between the two, the baker can, depending on the case, adjust the proportions as they see fit. And here, as there, these possibilities allow them to adapt fermentation to the ever-changing needs of bread making. Depending on whether there is more or less water, the culture broth that a poolish represents is more or less voluminous and reacts differently.
With a given weight of yeast, even if the total duration of fermentation is roughly the same, the proofing of the poolish first, then the batch later, will be very different from each other depending on whether the culture is large or small (approaching the Viennese or French method). Due to the relatively high quantity of yeast compared to the low weight of flour in the mixture, a small poolish will have a fast proofing. Conversely, with the weight of yeast remaining constant and the weight of flour increasing, the proofing of a large poolish will be much slower.
On the other hand, after the kneading of the batch, since the quantity of ferments is much less significant in the first mixture, the proofing of the dough will be much longer. The opposite will occur with a large mixture: a massive contribution of ferments and a much shorter proofing.
Part 4: The Advantages of the Poolish Method
By observing these variations closely, one immediately perceives the advantage to be drawn from this reality: it is possible to shift the timing of the bread cycles at will, moving the kneading of the batch further away or closer. Likewise, and in very large proportions, one can vary the proofing of the poolish, and all this—it is good to specify once more—within the framework of the same yeast addition.
This flexibility can especially be put to use at the start of daily production. In normal times, especially in cities, the requirements of French consumers are known: they have a marked taste for fresh bread early in the morning. No one is unaware, either, of the increasingly marked aversion of bakers in general for night work, which does not seem naturally suited to facilitating the sale of fresh bread at the earliest hour.
Working on poolish, when the fermentation is well-regulated, offers the possibility of marrying these contradictions. By using the so-called Viennese poolish, one can, by judiciously decreasing the weight of the yeast, plan for a proofing of 7 hours. Prepared thus at 9 o'clock in the evening, such a culture will allow the kneading to be performed at 4 o'clock in the morning. The proofing will be fast: let us suppose it takes 30 to 45 minutes; the shaping (tourne) can be performed around 5 o'clock. The final proof (apprêt) will take 1 h. 15 to 1 h. 30. The baking of small rolls and baguettes takes 10 to 15 minutes, while that of two-pound loaves takes 30 to 35 minutes. At 6:40 AM, small rolls, and at 7:00 AM, specialty breads (pains de fantaisie), can be baked and offered for consumption.
Let us add that such production will be of remarkable quality, both in terms of flavor and preservation. For the batches that follow, we do not lose sight of the fact that the preliminary preparation of a necessary "batter" for each of them—while the direct method dispenses with this task—constitutes additional work that can be avoided. However, depending on the importance of the production, it can be interesting to make the first, sometimes even the second batch, using a "poolish".
Besides the undeniable advantage we have just highlighted, working on "poolish" can sometimes present interest from other points of view. In years where atmospheric vicissitudes cause the quality of wheat to be below average, this method of working gives the doughs a strength and tenacity that is difficult to obtain using the direct method. In this circumstance, "poolish" bread has a significantly superior external appearance. Another non-negligible advantage lies in the greater tolerance that this method ensures for the rising of the doughs.
Would you like me to create a timeline/schedule based on that 9:00 PM start time so you can see how it fits into a modern baking day?
I'm just the assistant. I simply upload the images and ask for the translation. It takes a few seconds.
Gary
Gemini did a good job on the OCR and translate. I didn't think that it would be happy to do this. I wonder what size of image based pdf it would be happy to process - I have a few old books in French and German that it would be useful for.
I like ChatGPT best, but it has started to seriously limit file uploads and questions it will accept - a case of needing to make some money, I guess.
Lance
This was the first time I had used it. It warns that fonts and image quality might impact the quality. It would be interesting to see how it would handle old texts where f and s look alike.
Gary
It’s just like a Biga . I’ll make a small amount and subtract from my basic dough so I end up with the same amount.
Will give it a try in a few weeks when we use up the bread I made.
Thank you. c